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In another Tribe the subject came up and I gave an answer . . . I also linked the thread to Aeon where this question might get a more reasoned answer than that which I gave.
minneapolis.tribe.net/thread/...6d8d24b2
minneapolis.tribe.net/thread/...6d8d24b2
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Tue, June 28, 2005 - 9:29 AMThanks, Rick. I'll be happy to take a shot at this, which I trust you will pass on to Cliff and Adam and the rest:
As an editor -- and also as a writer who has submitted fiction to other editors since 1974 -- I'm in a pretty good position to answer that question, at least for me and those I've discussed it with over the years.
Adam, the kind of arrogant asshole who wants to be the only one looking at a story is one who has future magazine issue to fill with the best and most appropriate pieces of fiction sent to her. To find enough stories to fill two issues, she's acknowledged, read, and sent back hundreds, for a major investment of time and energy. If we're talking about a book editor looking to fill a book line, multiply this by the difference in the length of the manuscripts. I'm speaking for me as a short fiction editor, but everything I say applies across the line.
True, the ones that didn't get this far could have been submitted to dozens of markets, and she'd never know. Cliff, Adam, if your aim extends no further than always to be one of those authors, then ignore our incredible arrogance, but don't think that means a 'bidding war' in which you'll emerge the winner. Auction situations happen to novelists with a very hot property and a bold agent, not to beginners trying to maximize their submission chances. An editor will naturally believe that your submission is to her market alone if you don't say so because these are rules that are so understood in the everyday courtesy of publishing that many don't bother to insult your intelligence by laying them out in their guidelines.
Now stretch those writers' imaginations and put yourself in the place of the editor who has finally found the stories she needs to fill the niches in her upcoming issues. She has sent back hundreds of not-nearly-good-enough stories, but the heartbreaking thing is that she has also sent back a handful of stories that might have been good enough at some other time, when she didn't have THIS batch of stories, which fit so well together. She emails the authors, attaching contracts. Then one writes back and says, "I'm sorry, I can't sell you that story. I submitted it to several markets, and one of them has already bought it."
Now imagine yourself trying to sell a story to that editor in the future. -
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Tue, June 28, 2005 - 4:04 PMThanks for this, Bridget and Rick! I was following that other thread too, since this issue is also one I've heard various sides of. Thanks for the good advice.
~TS~
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 7:32 AMWell said, Bridget! Speaking as a writer who usually sees a 1 to 3 year lag between writing the story and selling the story (after hitting my markets one at a time), I've come to accept each part of the process -- idea, research, writing, re-writing, submitting, re-submitting, selling -- as a part of the Grand Writing Safari. Each rejection a trophy, each month of waiting a stirring in the underbrush, each market a new landscape to explore, each sale a party in the village.
But then again, most folks think I'm a bit weird for that.
Bottom line is that fiction is a buyer's market with the editors selecting from a pretty large pool of submissions. It behooves us to make their jobs easier (thus increasing our own chance of selling) by following their guidelines.
Meanwhile, while you wait, write more stories!
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 3:47 PMI think we also need to remember that the SF community is very small, and editors do move around. The semi-pro editor you tick off today may be editing one of the Big Three tomorrow. Or ten years from now, anyway.
I must confess that not too long ago, I subbed a story to a market, and when I went to enter it into my database, I realized it was out (I was sure I'd checked, but mistakes...) I imediately emailed the second editor, telling him what an idiot I was, and he deleted the sub and said no harm, no foul.
Editors do deserve exclusive consideration. What do we say about men (sorry, it's tradition, guys) who make an eight o'clock date with Mary and a 10 o'clock date with Sally?
As for bidding wars, do they *ever* happen on short stories? Unless your name is Truman Capote, that is, and you happen to be dead, and this is an unpublished work...
Consider Mr. Shatner's reputaiton when considering the following statement: One of the reasons Gene Roddenberry gave for replacing Jeffrey Hunter as the Captain of the Enterprise was that William Shatner was easier to work with.
"Jeffrey WHO?" I hear you cry... -
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 6:01 PMJennifer makes an important point: accidental simsubs happen all the time. A now-cover-name author of our acquaintance who used to have poor record-keeping habits once had three editors ask ALMOST simultaneously for a story he hadn't realized he'd subbed to three markets at once. He had already accepted the first (and smallest) magazine, and so missed what would have been his first sale to Asimov's.
And her other important point is what a small, incestuous community this is, and how important it is to keep that in mind when dealing as a professional with other professionals. -
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 6:43 PMWell, editors can make mistakes too (boo, hiss, blasphemy!) I once had a story rejected from a Big Name market (BNM), and sent it to a smaller one (SO) that accepted it the next day. About a month later, the editor of BNM e-mailed me, asking for the story. I was really tempted to pull it from the SO, but it didn't feel right. Which brings up another point: if you simsub, you have to go with the first offer, which means that sometimes you'll get a response from a less desirable market first, and would have to say no to a better market if they are slow. -
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 8:55 PMWe haven't made THAT mistake yet, but we've made plenty of others...
And yes, you can't pull a story from the Small Market just because the Big Market will pay you more/give you more exposure, or sound better when you tell your mates. I mean you CAN, but I agree with Kathy that you shouldn't. -
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Tue, July 5, 2005 - 5:15 PMAside from it being a really mean thing to do (pulling from the smaller market because the bigger market is "better") it's unprofessional and will come back to bite you. And editors do remember who you are. I've met editors who've rejected me, and they have always remembered who I am. (Admittedly, I have a surname that is shared by very few people on the planet.) The thing is, when you meet, for example, Bridget, at a con, you want her to think, "Oh, here's this nice person who keeps sending me manuscripts(regardless of quality of same.)" Not, "Oh, it's that ##@! whodumped me for Asimov's."
Of course, we would all love to have that problem ;-)....
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Thu, June 30, 2005 - 3:34 PMI confess, I've accidentally simsubbed. The editors were very nice about it.
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 6:17 PMKen has a great point here: "while you wait, write more stories!" If you only have one story in the submission mill it's easier to generate angst over how long it takes a single editor to get back to you about it. Ken talks about three year lags between writing and sales, and I've experienced that myself, but if a writer is busy generating, researching, writing, rewriting, etc., that one story takes a less dramatic place in their life, and it's easier to feel a sense of proportion about it. -
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Thu, June 30, 2005 - 6:20 AM"While you wait, write more stories."
No kidding. My mantra. If it weren't for the fact that I had the next story to look forward to writing, I'd obsess over every word for weeks before I ever put a story in the mail. Write it, fix it, clean it, put it in the mail, start next story (you know, the one that's going to win all the awards.) :-)
I'm usually so involved with the story I'm writing, there are times when editorial responses to my submissions are almost surprises. They'd like to buy what? Oh yeah, THAT story. It sure beats sitting around by the mailbox or hitting the refresh button until your mouse dies. As of this morning, I have around thirty stories in the mail. Once you get past a dozen or so, you really start to lose focus on the obsession over one story.
Also, you have to develop a submission strategy. I know that unless it's the last week of the month, the first market I'm sending my story to is SCIFICTION. (The reason I don't send it there first if it's the last weekend of the month is simple: Ellen picks up her mail once a month, on the third Thursday. If I send it after that date, the story is going to sit in her mailbox for almost a full month before she even touches the envelope. So, if that's the case, I send it out to F&SF first, as I'll usually have a response back in time to still hit Ellen's pick-up date. Two markets in the same amount of time.)
If it comes back from Ellen, then I have a list, top-down, of where to send it. Were I more ambitious, I'd start with markets like the New Yorker, but hey, if Bradbury can't sell 'em a story . . .
Pay, prestige and editor loyalty are the criteria for me, in that order.
Hmm. I may have drifted off-topic here. :-)
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Re: A Question on Simultaneous Submissions
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 7:33 AMWell said, Rick! Sorry...didn't mean to leave you out. : )
