What's So Great About Tribe?

topic posted Thu, June 16, 2005 - 4:52 PM by  Unsubscribed
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While I know that many of you are new here, having been invited to this tribe as a way of establishing an Aeon Community, it's worth a post to explain what I think are Tribe.net's attractions.

One of the things I enjoy is starting conversations pertinent to topics I'm exploring in my writing. An example is this thread I started in the Crossroads of Religion Tribe regarding my views on Christianity and the Poor: minneapolis.tribe.net/thread/...74045daa

While the conversation is mostly pointless blather, I have found several nuggets that have made it into my notebook and will appear in dialogue for various characters.

Another interesting thing found here are remarkable conversations that are just rich with story ideas. An example in the Cognitive Science Tribe regarding Autism as Human Evolution. Sure saves a lot of research to have it all at the fingertip (all tribe archives are easily searchable, by the way) minneapolis.tribe.net/thread/...b2d4b013

In my political tribes (a passion for argument, this young padawan has) I can get all the current news without searching the net, since the participants post everything interesting as soon as it appears.

I also have my own private tribe where I, and several writer friends, post stories and have on-line critique and discussion. The result of one of these critiques and rewrites will probably be the first story I send to Aeon.

Of course, the downside is that Tribe is addictive - - but what isn't?
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  • Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

    Thu, June 16, 2005 - 5:56 PM
    Wow, thanks Rick. This is great.

    I think Tribe is a great tool for writers and creative types of all kinds, and an excellent way to stay in touch and meet like-minded (read: weird) people. There are subject matter experts of all kinds here, and most are more than willing to share information and resources.

    Thanks again for this intro to Tribe. Great idea.

    Marti

    PS: Looking forward to your submission. :)
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      Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

      Thu, June 16, 2005 - 6:05 PM
      <<PS: Looking forward to your submission. :) >>

      To tell the truth (I discussed it in my blog recently) I've been remiss at submitting. There's a drawer of stories here that I've just not sent back out. It's been frustrating being "almost there" and I think I was handling it better when I just got impersonal form-letter rejects.
      • Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

        Thu, June 16, 2005 - 6:20 PM
        We all feel your pain. And this is another thing that's great about Tribe:

        Jay, Mark, DubJay -- how to beat the submission block?

        :)
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          Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

          Thu, June 16, 2005 - 6:50 PM
          Didn't mean to whine.

          I'll send you something soon.
          • Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

            Sat, June 18, 2005 - 4:09 PM
            Rick remember, editors do no buy 100% of the manuscripts that are sitting in your drawer ;-).
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

              Sun, June 19, 2005 - 8:42 AM
              Jennifer,

              While I know that's true, and while I'm not a quitter, I'm currently trying to figure out what direction is available for my writing 'career.' I've been to several conventions and have sat in on dozens of panels, talked to many writers, and discussed the marketplace with many editors.

              My goal isn’t just to get a story or two into magazines, my goal is to achieve maximum exposure for my ideas about community, spirituality, and the future. I want people to pause and consider, if for a moment, a view.

              That's the reason I Tribe. The internet is evolving, and has been for a decade, into a clearinghouse of communities of choice. I can log in, say something that is important to me, and a hundred or a thousand people will see and read my words and some of them will ponder the novelty.

              Alternatively I can write a story, polish it, and send it through the submission cycle for six months, a year, two years or more. Maybe it'll see print and eventually be read. It might win recognition and be mentioned in trade publications. It might be reprinted. The question remains: For whom am I writing? Myself, my peers, or a distinct sci-fi community?

              Readership is decreasing yearly. That's true of novels, periodicals, and newspapers. But, it is not to say that less people are reading. On the contrary, more people are reading, but they are reading on-line in a graphically-enhanced flash format. I suspect that the while the average person reads more words per year than ever before, that traditional printed media accounts for a rapidly diminishing percentage of that consumption.

              Where am I going with this?

              Aeon intrigues me because Marti and Bridget are actively seeking to take advantage of the community-building that the internet affords. I'm reading the first three issues now - specifically because they have made this effort. I rarely read newsstand issues of short-fiction any longer, instead waiting for compendiums, audio, or on-line versions of award-nominated stories.

              So, Aeon intrigues me because of this effort. It's the next step, I believe, from mere on-line magazine formats. New Horizons, Sci-Fiction, etc. put their stories on the internet but treat them in much the same way that a regular magazine does - buy/print/sell/forget.

              I think the next movement in writing will be writers creating their own audiences and for those audiences to follow the writer to markets, rather than the other way 'round. Look at Cory Doctorow. He's a good writer with novel ideas and a great voice, but the biggest draw is that he is read daily by a quarter-million people on Boing Boing and because they like him there, they'll go to wherever he has a fiction story and purchase. He brings instant sales with him. John Scalzi developed an audience by putting Old Man's War on the Internet first, in a blog, and that audience followed him right to the print copy when TOR bought it.

              So, the traditional break-through cycle of short-fiction as a grueling right of passage for authors is competing with instant audience exposure available in the new communities of choice.

              I love writing and will never stop - - my question is: what should I spend my writing time creating?
              • Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

                Sun, June 19, 2005 - 9:28 AM
                It's interesting that you say writing is evolving -- writers creating their own audiences is actually where it *started.* Mass availablity of the written word is fairly new. Even post-Guttenburg, books were still fairly hard for the average citizen to come by. Promotion of the written word is even newer. For thousands of years, writers and story-tellers had to create their own audiences. I guess the question you have to anwer for yourself is whether you want to be a writer (I've had several pieces published and there is a definite thrill to that) or whether you want to be, I don't know, a philosopher, would you say? If you're looking for a platform to express your ideas, probably the best way to do it is to start a website and find some way to get a *lot* of traffic.
                However, the flip side of it for me is, why would anyone come to my website when they don't know who I am? J.K. Rowling made her writing career the old-fashioned way. While I highly doubt that any of us are going to come even close to 1% of her level of success, it does prove it can still be done. HP & The Philospher's Stone was originally published by a small press, print run of something like 2000. Everything else that happened was word of mouth. She has a website now, but she didn't then.
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                  Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

                  Sun, June 19, 2005 - 9:48 AM
                  I'm already a writer. I've had a column in a local paper, I've had dozens of articles in engineering trade journals, and I've won several poetry-slam competitions.

                  Do I want J.K. Rowling - type success while doing something that comes easily and naturally? Of course.

                  What I'm talking about, however, is what to do with these stories in my drawer. Is it best to continue the tried and true, but grueling and disappointing, submission process? Or is it better to develop readership within my on-line community and then explore other avenues for publishing/releasing my fiction?

                  If it were about the money, I wouldn't be writing, would I?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

                    Sun, June 19, 2005 - 12:26 PM
                    May I jump in?

                    "What I'm talking about, however, is what to do with these stories in my drawer. Is it best to continue the tried and true, but grueling and disappointing, submission process? Or is it better to develop readership within my on-line community and then explore other avenues for publishing/releasing my fiction?"

                    That assumes that the stories are in their final, best-they-can-be form, which may be the case. It brings to mind some pros and cons, though.

                    One advantage I've found of submitting stories the "traditional" way is that even when a story gets rejected I often get useful feedback and can improve the story. A work that's "made the rounds" of a few markets is often better than when it started. Even good stories get better with input from a pair of fresh eyes.

                    In terms of "building a career," I think I've learned at least as much from my rejections as I have from my sales.

                    OTOH, if I have something I want to say, and the form the work's in at the moment serves to get that across, something like a website's probably the best way to reach more people quickly.

                    I think it depends on your primary goal.
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                      Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

                      Tue, June 21, 2005 - 10:09 PM
                      Melissa,

                      You bring up some good points. Undoubtably there is room for improvement in my trunk stories, but wouldn't that be true for all fiction, published or not?

                      Feedback is good and often helpful but I have to finish my fiction and move on. There isn't enough time in my life for rewriting after every rejection, especially when the story reaches a form that I like and am happy with.

                      While I know that this grueling short fiction process is a good way to hone the craft of writing, I question its future. Who is reading these publications, after all? Is there a big speculative fiction fan base or is it writers writing for other writers? The only people I know who read Asimov's are writers - - and I'm no wallflower. Where are the readers and what are they reading? That's the real question I have.

                      I apologize that I came back strongly at Jennifer, but her insinuation that I'm not a writer because I'm posing these questions and expressing frustration at a very small niche of the publishing world angered me.

                      - Rick
                      • Re: What's So Great About Tribe?

                        Wed, June 22, 2005 - 4:33 PM
                        I think you've hit something with "Who is reading these publications, after all?" in that you need to ask 'WHAT audience are you trying to reach?" Traditional publication will expose your work to one set of eyes, something like a website to another.

                        I suspect the answer's different for different people, and depends on what the author wants to get from writing.

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