Utopia vs. Dystopia

topic posted Thu, July 7, 2005 - 4:40 PM by  Unsubscribed
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I've heard that editors would like to publish more Utopian short fiction. Is this true?

The reason I ask is that I'm sitting here with dozens and dozens of story ideas floating about and not a single one of them Utopian. What are your favorite Utopian short stories? Why do you think that writing it (for me at least) produces such a block?
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  • Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

    Thu, July 7, 2005 - 4:54 PM
    Ah hell, here's my two cents:

    Dystopian fiction produces its own conflict. It's much easier to build a story with a traditional structure in a dystopian setting than that of a Utopian setting, particularly in Science Fiction where setting is more integral to the story's development than in some other genres.

    Utopian fiction lacks that inherent conflict. It's a great starting point for a story: Dick-bot and Jane-bot are living a happy life with Spot-bot, until bad things happen which threaten the Bots happy home, said bad things usually being a product of the underlying fault-lines of said Utopia. But usually, the stories that tend to start with a Utopian premise end up leaning toward the horror or suspense genres, and then we call it Appollonian instead of Utopian; Dyonisian for Dystopian.

    The dystopian adds tension with its very existence. You have to work much harder with the utopian.

    I'll shut up now. :-)
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      Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

      Fri, July 8, 2005 - 6:25 AM
      I agree, joseph paul, that the dystopian story has prepackaged conflict. That makes it much easier to write.

      I also think that given our political climate, dystopias are easier to believe. There was a time when the sense of wonder was enough. There was a time when some research was being done for the greater good, when the space program was just exploration and not profit, when wars were fought to free people from tyranny. Those days seem over . . . the only 'greater good' science project is the Hubble and that's ending because it isn't profitable. Even the human genome is being parsed, patented, and owned.

      I can't wrap my head around the positive in the face of glaring negative.
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        Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

        Fri, July 8, 2005 - 7:33 AM
        Okay, time for a little historical perspective here. The golden age of technophilic science fiction was the midst of the Depression through Macarthyism up until, I would say, A Clockwork Orange. This day and age is no better and no worse than any other. In fact, in most ways it's a lot better. I have the sense that dystopian sf really got going when we landed on the moon. For some reason, I'm not sure why, people writing sf began to believe that we couldn't technofix our way out of our problems (environmental and societal) and that it would be much harder. So instead of trying to write good social SF were people created innovative societies with, perhaps different ways to allocate wealth, deal with prejudice or deal with pollution, writers took the easy way out and imagined worlds where the whole thing fell apart.

        How's this for a story idea challenge. Write a story, set in the near future where the main character is actually trying to put a world government in place that would : 1) Be democratic; 2) Protect the rights of minorities; 3) Put in regulatory systems that allowed for sustainable development; 4) Provided for universal education and finally, my personal favorite 5) allowed for the exploration of space.

        Now, someone tell me there's no built in conflict with that. In fact, I think that should be the next themed issue for Aeon.

        SF people are some of the smartest and most creative people around. We should be expermenting with this kind of thing and not bitching anc complaining about who screwed the world is. F
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          Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

          Mon, July 11, 2005 - 5:52 AM
          It's an interesting project . . . a beneficial one-world government.

          I like to consider Starship Troopers as the rewrite of 1984 told from the perspective of someone who bought into the system. Sometimes a dystopia is just another person's utopia.
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            Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

            Mon, July 11, 2005 - 12:35 PM
            Actually I think the terms have no meaning. If you live in subsaharan Africa what would you consider it. What if you were in the ruling class? How about the poor or had HIV?

            In the U.S. if your affluent would you consider it utopia, poor dystopia, who knows. By the same token it's also a matter of perspective. The poorest in the U.S. would be considered well off in the Sudan. If everyone lived in squallor would they even know, if they couldn't envision a world with something more? Maybe it's economic separation that creates the difference. But anyway, a bit of world building:

            It's 2042, global warming has taken hold. China is a world power rivalling the U.S. About an additional 10% of the land is below sea level and parts of Antarctic dirt are beginning to show themselves making the place almost habitable. Population 10.2 billion and climbing with an expected level off at 13 billion in 2055.

            We are feeding the world but just barely. Actually, there is just barely enough food to feed the world but it's not distributed fairly. On the upside for those with money, living in the industrial west, growing Asia or the U.S. life is just great.

            Now, how about a character, a rich man or woman, something happens that forces them to see how the other half lives.

            Your turn.
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              Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

              Mon, July 11, 2005 - 4:25 PM
              A woman who is designing habitable sea platforms which could rise with the seas, and would be distributed along the equator where the worst of the storms wouldn't get them. Each platform suitably holds a city of a million people and 'aquacultural farms' to feed the population and tapping into solar, wind, and underwater waterfall generators to power each.

              It's a brilliant idea and she's so excited about the design of it, the building of it, and the hope that it would give relief to large populations of currently impoverished people . . .

              Until she's given the job of choosing who gets to live on the prototype.
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                Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

                Tue, July 12, 2005 - 9:00 AM
                We need a world wide disaster so that her decisions become more urgent. We also have to have a threat to her authority. She could decide things while everything was spinning along smoothly. Once it hits the fan, the big boys need to come in. She needs to fight to keep people who are normally disinfranchised in the running for being saved on her platform.

                This sounds like it's getting too close to the flood myth without the animals.
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                  Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

                  Tue, July 12, 2005 - 3:49 PM
                  Nothing wrong with unique take on a pervasive myth.

                  Damn, another story idea I don't have time to write.
                • Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

                  Tue, July 12, 2005 - 8:19 PM
                  Tim - It's important to remember that the flood myth, and all those stories that are repeated across cultures, are deeply wired in the human psyche and therefore the sort of thing sf writers can give new life to. No good reason not to find those themes that hit us where we live; that's how some of the best stories and books are born.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

                    Thu, July 14, 2005 - 2:34 PM
                    I may be jumping the gun but would you be interested in seeing a story built around these ideas?

                    I can't speak for Rick but it sounds like something we should work on. A retake on the flood myth with a global warming theme, looking at a technophilic fix resulting in a utopia. Shouldn't be a problem. Say just under 5000 words by the end of the month, middle of August the latest.

                    Rick, you up for working on something like this with me and submitting it to Aeon?
  • Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

    Tue, July 12, 2005 - 8:22 PM
    We've never mentioned a preference for Utopian fiction, nor really considered that it was in short supply. Something that was written to "be Utopian" would probably fall flat with us as with other editors. Tell the story and let it decide what it is. If it's good someone will give it a home eventually, probably without giving a second thought to its place along the Utopian/Dystopian spectrum. Your block comes from not wanting to be false to yourself, so isn't something you need to worry about.
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      Re: Utopia vs. Dystopia

      Tue, July 12, 2005 - 9:10 PM
      At TorCon Gordon, Sheila, and a couple of other editors discussed this issue and expressed a desire to see more Utopia .. . that's where it's coming from.

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